Misunderstandings and Modesty

I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE by writing this. I just want to share my thoughts on the matter.

 

Okay, I am taking the bait. I may or may not actually post this. BUT I read this this morning and it has been on my mind on and off all day. Tonight I am sitting down to read it again and as I read I just have to object my points into it. I don’t care to get into an emotional debate over this. I do believe that the foundation of this blog post is simply incorrect. While I do agree with some things I do believe the premise of the whole argument is based on an incorrect understanding or a misunderstanding of what the General Authorities are actually saying.  Letting emotions get the best of us! In saying this I don’t want to condemn. But I do want people to look past an emotional argument, and look past emotion in general and let the Light of Christ guide.  Moroni 7: 16-17 For Behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a PERFECT KNOWLEDGE it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a PERFECT KNOWLEDGE it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no not one…

So I suppose I start my two cents on this post by saying; if agreeing with this post is drawing you closer to God then it is good. If it is not. It is not good. It really is that simple. I also love that is says in the scripture with knowledge. I fear too often we get caught up with emotion. Knowledge is much more powerful and quite frankly withstands arguments than does emotional ideas.

I have copied the original post into this blog, and I will add my thoughts in a different color. I am not putting anyone down in doing this I am simply showing another side to the emotional argument at hand.

The only reason I am posting this is because when I read the post I fear that others who may read may get the idea that women in the church are blamed, oppressed, viewed as less than males, or not respected. This is simply not true. Women are valued and respected and honored and viewed as equal. The fact is that everyone is responsible for the acts they commit. No one is to blame.   

Her whole blog without being interrupted from me can be found here:

http://rebeccaamoore.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/modest-is-not-hottest/

 

Modest Is Not Hottest

So for those of you who aren’t familiar with how Mormons dress, we have modesty standards, similar to other faiths. We wear clothes that have some sort of sleeve, shorts/skirts to the knee, and nothing too low in the front or back. This is an outward expression of an inward commitment. This essay is in no way intended to imply I am unhappy with dressing modestly. This is actually something I have chosen to do, and love to do.

Modesty is a lot of things, and it is primarily a way in which we show respect for our bodies and Heavenly Father.  However, over the years, as I’ve attended Firesides, Girls Camp, Youth Activities, Sunday School, etc., I occasionally heard a different message. Modesty was my responsibility to make sure the boys around me were not tempted toward immoral thoughts or actions. Now that I’m older, I’ve started hearing it even more. This is simply unacceptable.

YES! In the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet is says; Your body is sacred. Respect it and do not defile it in any way. Through your dress and appearance, you can show that you know how precious your body is. You can show that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ and that you love Him. Prophets of God have continually counseled His children to dress modestly. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and you can be a good influence on others. It also quotes 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you… The temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The next part I disagree with in her paragraph. She says; it is unacceptable for her to have responsibility to keep the men around her having clean and pure thoughts. Yes, if this is what General Authorities are saying IT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE!!! BUT THEY ARE NOT! Thank Goodness!! I would have a problem with that too!!! Now perhaps individual leaders that this blogger may have misguided or misinterpreted quotes but I have NEVER ever ever heard this. I do believe that she or people who may have been falsely teaching her are eluding to this talk by Elder Oaks that is very graphic and clear of the effects of pornography on men and it is clear that the onus is on the man to change and to be pure. And He says near the end; And young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you… the whole talk can be found here: http://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/05/pornography

What He is saying is that out of respect for men who do struggle with impure thoughts if affects them so be kind. He isn’t saying, it is your duty to use your agency to keep men pure. And He certainly isn’t saying it is your fault. That is nonsense. Absolutely doctrinally void. Agency is within. I cannot make choices for my kids, I cannot make choices for my husband and I cannot change anyone… Ever! I can have influence but because of agency I will never have that ability. Men and women are free to choose for themselves.

He is also teaching in this quote that our actions influence others. This is not new. It is true in many different ways. Even if I do not intend a specific consequence for an act or action I may do it doesn’t make consequence not happen.

Really I could stop there because the whole premise of this blog is based on inappropriate interpretation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Persuading men and women to be caught up on a problem that doesn’t actually exist drawing them away from Christ. I do however after some conversation with someone that she too had a similar experience. To those who experienced this take heed to the correct doctrine and ensure you do not teach falsely to your own children and youth you may have influence over.

Implying that a woman’s modesty is something to be done for the benefit of men and boys is a destructive message for several reasons.

IF this were the only message given, perhaps this would be the case. However as discussed above as quoted in the strength of youth; we are taught much more!!

The second Article of Faith states, “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins…”

YES

Constantly telling a girl that a man’s thoughts and actions are her responsibility is doctrinally incorrect.

Yes, however thank goodness we are not taught this! See above.

 It also translates closely to the idea that it is a woman’s responsibility to maintain the sexual standards of a relationship.  

No it doesn’t because we are not given the responsbility that this blogger has insinuated we have.

Elder Jeffery R. Holland said, “I have heard all my life that it is the young woman who has to assume the responsibility for controlling the limits of intimacy in courtship because a young man cannot. What an unacceptable response to such a serious issue! What kind of man is he, what priesthood or power or strength or self-control does this man have that lets him develop in society, grow to the age of mature accountability, perhaps even pursue a university education and prepare to affect the future of colleagues and kingdoms and the course of the world, but yet does not have the mental capacity or the moral will to say, ‘I will not do that thing?’ No, this sorry drugstore psychology would have us say, ‘He just can’t help himself. His glands have complete control over his life–his mind, his will, his entire future.’… I refuse to buy some young man’s feigned innocence who wants to sin and call it psychology.” 

What a great quote!

 

Another problem is these ideas can kill a girls image of herself as a daughter of God deserving of respect.

 

 

Girls are often told boys will give women respect if they are dressed in a respectful way, and they will behave inappropriately if you are dressed inappropriately. Unfortunately, that’s not how the world works. Some men behave disrespectful to women regardless of dress. Instances of rape and sexual assault are often higher in countries with laws dictating how a woman dress. Men with that mindset will not be deterred by fabric.

Click to enlarge.

 

Although I do find this world map very interesting and really quite sad I do believe it points not to the fabric that is on the women in the countries involved but the view of women as lower than males. The improper belief that man is superior.  What a sad state. Rape is horrific.

I know in my own life, I have always been meticulously modest. However, I have constantly been at the receiving end of some of the most degrading comments. “Wow, you can tell you have a huge rack even in that sweatshirt!” and “You’re a solid 8, except for your boobs. They’re a 10,” probably come in as most memorable. I had FHE brothers admit to me that they assumed I was not a very good Mormon because of the way I’m built. As sweatshirt man pointed out, there is really only so much I can do, short of wearing a giant bag to hide the fact I look like a woman.

For a long time, when I would hear these things, my mind couldn’t but help think that it was somehow my fault. I clearly wasn’t a very good person, or else I wouldn’t be having men say things like this to me. My value as a daughter of God was being degraded, and instead of demanding to be treated like a human being, I shrunk back, thinking I had been the one in the wrong.

Like she said and the end of her blog, not the opportunity to interact with many stellar men! Yup, that about sums it up. It is unfortunate to have these experiences and especially have it make you feel poorly about yourself. While I do not wish to diminish the affect that these comments have obviously had on her it does clearly show that no matter what we do (as she has done her part in showing respect to herself and God) we are not responsible for others actions. People have their agency to act. Inappropriate as the case is here and that is NOT her fault. It is important when we struggle with things we turn to the doctrine of the church to answer our problems and that means seeking knowledge out of the best books.

 

Probably one of the most concerning aspects of this mindset is it is a form of victim blaming. Women at the receiving end of verbal, physical, or sexual assault are often asked “Well, what did you do to provoke him,” “Were you asking for it,” or, one of the most common, “What were you wearing?” Last I checked, when given the commandment not to commit adultery there was no addendum that said “Unless she was dressed like a slut, then it’s totally her fault, and you’re off the hook.” Someone once told me that when you are teaching women to change what they do to prevent being assaulted or raped, what you are actually doing is saying “Make sure he assaults someone else.” You are not fixing the real problem, which is the man’s problem. Men have to exist in the world where women will have a variety of dressing habits. All of these women all are deserving of respect, and if his thoughts or actions cannot be controlled, that is his problem.

No one deserves to be raped EVER. Period. Dress should not be brought into a conversation of rape EVER.

I like dressing modestly. I like other people being comfortable around me. But the real reason I want to dress modestly is because for me, it is a way of looking forward to respecting the covenants I will make in the temple. When I get dressed, I ask myself, “If I was endowed, could I wear this?”  No offense, but as a woman whoes figure is somewhere between a greek sculpture and the women they used to paint on airplanes in WWII, and legs that go to Canada, certainly dressing modest is not hottest. But my choice in clothing is not about that, nor is it about a need to hide my body. As I said at the beginning, it is an outward display of an inward commitment, one that I would like to remind certain people they are supposed to respect, too. (Yes, I’m looking at you Mr. RM who spends the entire summer in a cut out tank top.) Modesty is an important principal, but it is not one that should be taught as a scapegoat for men’s responsibility.

Yes it should not be taught as a scapegoat for responsibility of men to keep themselves pure in act and thought and good thing it is not. Perhaps people have incorrectly assumed that but plain and simple it is not. Perhaps wherever this blogger lives the Mormon culture is this, if that is it is a shame. It is not the doctrine of the church. And this blogger and anyone who feels the same as her should get a doctrinal foundation on the subject and speak up against it from the perspective of the doctrine. From the heading of the talk I quoted above by Elder Oaks: Let us all improve our personal behavior and redouble our efforts to protect our loved ones and our environment from the onslaught of pornography. In no way is he pointing a finger and blaming or putting responsibility on a specific gender. He is specifically talking about pornography here but it could be talked applied to many avenues.

 

DISCLAIMER: I have had the privilege of interacting with a lot of stellar men in my life. This is in no way supposed to be an indictment of the entire male population.